{"id":27912,"date":"2023-04-13T12:03:09","date_gmt":"2023-04-13T16:03:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/irishexaminerusa.com\/wp\/?p=27912"},"modified":"2023-04-17T16:24:43","modified_gmt":"2023-04-17T20:24:43","slug":"thomas-g-waites-transitions-to-filmmaker-from-veteran-actor-with-target-his-directorial-debut","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/irishexaminerusa.com\/wp\/?p=27912","title":{"rendered":"Thomas G. Waites Transitions To Filmmaker from Veteran Actor with “Target” — His Directorial Debut"},"content":{"rendered":"\n
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Photo: Brad Balfour<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Interview by Brad Balfour<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Actor, teacher and now director Thomas G. Waites doesn\u2019t shy away from taking chances or courting controversy. For his first directorial outing, he pushed the envelope creating \u201cTarget\u201d — a gender-bending, sexually provocative dark comedy which doesn\u2019t shy away from challenging audiences with extreme language or suggestive scenes (though there\u2019s no nudity).<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Born January 8, 1955 in Philadelphia, Waites ultimately found himself in New York City. A member of the Actors Studio since 1984, the upper Eastside resident runs his own acting studio in New York City which is named after him. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

The son of Michael and Anne Waites, this Philly native completed grade school at Immaculate Conception and then high school at Bishop Egan in Fairless Hills, PA. After a year at Bucks County Community College, he received a full scholarship for acting at New York City\u2019s Juilliard School. Once he had a B.A. degree in Writing from The New School, he got a Masters of Fine Arts in Playwriting from the University of Iowa.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Then the 21-year-old Waites was offered two movies simultaneously: \u201cSnowbound\u201d and \u201cPity the Poor Soldier\u201d (the title has subsequently changed). Despite being offered twice the money for the former, Waites chose the latter because it was celebrating the American Revolutionary War centennial. He\u2019s inevitably a man driven by ideas not necessarily money.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Waites next originated the role of Oliver Treefe in Simon Gray’s world premiere of “Molly,” at the First Annual Spoleto Festival in Charleston, S.C. After this acclaimed performance, he returned to NYC to be cast in the Joan Micklin Silver-produced \u201cOn the Yard\u201d (1978), co-starring John Heard. Subsequently, he was offered a three-picture option deal with Paramount Pictures. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

After strong critical notices the rambunctious actor auditioned for and got a part in Walter Hill’s \u201cThe Warriors\u201d (1979) playing the character Fox. After disputes with the director, he was fired. When the studio asked him where he wanted for his billing he told them to remove his name completely, a decision Waites now regrets. He has since reconciled with Walter Hill. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

Bouncing back, Waites auditioned with Al Pacino, and was cast in Norman Jewison\u2019s \u201c\u2026And Justice for All\u201d (1979). This began a long relationship with Pacino — the two worked together again in Shakespeare’s \u201cRichard III\u201d and he got strong notices again. Then, Waites originated the role of Mitchell in Alan Bowne’s \u201cForty-Deuce\u201d Off-Broadway at the Perry Street Theatre. In 1982, Waites competed with Matt Dillon and Kevin Bacon before landing the role of Bobby in David Mamet’s Pulitzer Prize-winning play, “American Buffalo.” Kurt Russell and John Carpenter saw his performance and cast him as Windows in \u201cThe Thing\u201d (1982). <\/p>\n\n\n\n

It was during this time that Tom met his namesake, singer Tom Waits, who generously taught Tom the song “Jersey Girl.\u201d Out of deference to musician Waits, Tom added the G. to his professional name to offset any confusion between the two talented artists. Waits even played the bass drum on a demo tape of G. Waites’ music. Tom G. began writing music and formed a band called The Pushups, playing gigs around NYC in clubs such as CBGB’s, Limelight, Trax, The Bitter End and even opening for The Smithereens.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

And that\u2019s just a part of the first couple of decades in his long career log. There is much more, but now, he grapples with the next big challenge \u2014 releasing his directorial debut.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Q: How did we land here? What are you doing, what are you going to do and what have you done?
\u00a0
TW: Well, that\u2019s a loaded question for me because I\u2019ve done quite a lot. But the most important thing I\u2019ve done [lately] is about to drop April 18 on all the video platforms — Prime Amazon, Apple, Google, VUDU. It\u2019s a film called \u201cTarget\u201d \u2014 a playful sex comedy. I wrote it during the pandemic when we were trapped inside here. I am sure you were trapped inside your crib too. I just said, \u201cYou know what? I want to make a movie, Goddamn it, and I’m gonna fuckin\u2019 make a movie.\u201d So I proceeded to write 27 drafts.
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Q: Wow, 27 drafts \u2014 and do you have them all [laughs]?
\u00a0
TW: No. They\u2019re somewhere I guess. But then I found a great script doctor who really whipped me into shape and finally I got a shooting script. But then of course when you get there everything changes because \u2014 that\u2019s the Movies! It\u2019s quite good, sort of\u00a0a \u201cRocky Horror Picture Show\u201d meets \u201cThe Big Lebowski.” It\u2019s wacky.
\u00a0
Q: You wrote the story during the pandemic shutdown. But did you shoot some of it during the pandemic, or was that was after?
\u00a0
TW: No, we didn\u2019t start shooting until May, 2021. Then we spent a year editing and scoring. I wrote almost all of the music along with my producer, Tony Daniels \u2014 who is par excellence. The music really helps the film I think a great deal. It helps to pull people in, at least that\u2019s what some people feel. They like to get a soundtrack of just the music. So we are going to try to work that out. We are being distributed by Deadtalk Live Films on Deadtalk Live Media. It\u2019s a chance to laugh at ourselves. I think it\u2019s important that we get to have a good laugh at ourselves, at our sexual idiosyncrasies shall we say.
\u00a0
Q: You have a special position in the cinematic universe having been in \u201cThe Warriors\u201d \u2014 a cult classic. You can do a lot of movies, but a film that sort of defines an era \u00ad\u2013\u2013 a movie where you\u2019re a character that flows through so many other films \u2013\u2013 that\u2019s rare. \u201cThe Big Lebowski\u201d is one that has that and certainly, so does \u201cTaxi Driver.\u201d
\u00a0
TW: Or, in doing John Carpenter\u2019s \u201cThe Thing.\u201d I may have made just as much money signing autographs for John Carpenter\u2019s remake. It is still terrific \u2014 and still holds up. [When I was doing] \u201cThe Warriors\u201d was an interesting time period in my life. I was 23, I just signed a three-picture deal with Paramount. It was supposed to be my name above the title \u2014 \u201cThomas Waites in \u2018The Warriors\u2019\u201d \u2014 but I pissed off the director so badly that he fired me after seven weeks. And I deserved it. I was a bit of\u00a0an angry young rebellious \u2026 you know. \u201cWhat are you rebelling against, Johnny? Well, what have you got?\u201d\u00a0That was my story. I stepped over the line and paid quite a price for that erroneous behavior. Since then, I\u2019ve been able to make amends to Walter [Hill] and make things right which is really good. It was hard kicking back. After that, almost two months after I got fired, I booked \u201cAnd Justice For All\u201d with Al Pacino which didn\u2019t hurt my stage career because I went on to do \u201cAmerican Buffalo.\u201d You can see the poster over there \u2026.
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Q: You are a little more chastened by then \u2026.
\u00a0
TW: I was immediately chastened, went into therapy and studied karate for discipline. I really put myself under the knife so to speak.
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Q: At what point in the script of \u201cThe Thing\u201d did you die?
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TW: I guess about halfway through \u2026 No, a little more than half, make it 3\/4th of the way.
\u00a0
Q: Oh, that\u2019s good. That helped your therapy.
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TW: [You remember] the blood test thing [where they expose the alien].
\u00a0
Q: Your therapy, could you apply it more effectively then?
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TW: I\u2019ve gotten along great with every director since. It was just that one false step. You know we all make mistakes but I happen to have made a pretty big one at a young age. The good thing about that is, I am also an acting teacher \u2014 TGW Acting Studios. One of the benefits of that is that I can help young people not to step into the same bear trap that I did.
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Q: Young people that are actors \u2014 they get the idea in their head that \u201cYes, you\u2019ve got to have It, that motivation and energy\u201d but\u00a0you also have to get rid of yourself, let go of your ego. That has to be one of the biggest lessons you have to teach.
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TW: To be of service to the story and the director is the conduit to the story. He\/she takes the writer \u2014 and sometimes that\u2019s the same person \u2014 but it\u2019s their job to convey the writer\u2019s intent and it\u2019s your job [as the actor] to follow that. I guess I just asked far too many questions. I think subconsciously I wanted to be making my own movies [laughs]. So I stepped out of bounds. But I\u2019ve been able to bounce back and have made 30 films. I\u2019ve done seven \u201cLaw & Orders.\u201d I was on \u201cOz\u201d for six years. And I have been on Broadway five times. It didn\u2019t stop me.
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Q: In being an actor or musician, you can go back and forth but they are very much two sides of the same coin. Yet they still are these very different sides. A musician has to articulate some vision of themself whether it\u2019s \u201cI am the rockstar\u201d or \u201cI am the gritty underground guy\u201d while the actor has to let go of articulating that. They have to get out of themselves.
\u00a0
TW: Yeah, I\u2019ve never thought about that. That\u2019s true.
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Q: It\u2019s a great exercise for a musician to do acting and vice versa. Look at David Bowie. What made him successful was he could move from one to the other. You\u2019re a musician as well \u2026.
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TW: That\u2019s right, he absolutely could. He did \u201cThe Elephant Man\u201d on Broadway, The New York Times said, \u201cBowie Is Splendid.\u201d You know how often that happens. Very Rarely. It is an interesting shedding of the skin in order to be subsumed by the character and allow it to come from your subconscious mind. Whereas a stage performer \/ musician \/ songwriter \/ singer, which is basically what I am. I\u2019m more the storyteller \u2014 the Irish storyteller with a tale to tell. There is suffering involved in that, as well. And redemption. And love and children and romance and all the great wonderful things worth living for.
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Q: Which one takes the most pain? You exemplify somebody else\u2019s pain or your own pain? At the end of the day, a song isn\u2019t great if it only reflects one state of mind.
\u00a0
TW: If it\u2019s not universal \u2026 It\u2019s like poetry, what makes Walt Whitman so brilliant, what makes Shakespeare so brilliant, what makes Hart Crane so\u00a0brilliant is their capacity to reach the universal man and that\u2019s art.
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Q: They are also reaching into their own inner pain. Where do you think an actor has to go to reach into the character\u2019s inner pain \u2014 to understand it and such? In Method acting they pull something out of themselves \u2026.
\u00a0
TW: Lee Strasberg definitely stressed using oneself whereas Stella Adler stressed using the imagination. I was trained of course at Juilliard which didn\u2019t stress either of them. I picked them up along the way and became a member of The Actor\u2019s Studio in \u201885.
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Q: Did you get a chance to join in with the reunion recently? With Al Pacino?
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TW: No. I didn\u2019t make it but a friend of mine did. He took a picture with Al and said, \u2018I studied with Tommy Waites\u2019 [imitating Al\u2019s voice.] \u201dTommy, How\u2019s he doing? He\u2019s a great actor. Give him my love.\u201d We keep in touch. He was very helpful to me as a young actor. He was not just great on stage every night but we became very, very close as friends. We shared the same dressing room for a year. My God, you really get to know somebody [that way] \u2026.
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Q: Yet it\u2019s funny. The acting and rock \u2018n roll worlds are so strange. Everything you do is new — a movie, a play, or in going on tour \u2014 even in joining a different band \u2014 it\u2019s like being reborn into a new life each time. It\u2019s not like you have a consistent day-to-day thing. You might if you had a regular TV series or theatrical production, but, at the end of the day, you know at some time or another, it\u2019s going to end.
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TW: You\u2019ve got to reinvent yourself every time out. You\u2019ve got to sing for your supper \u2014 you know this. I mean, every time out you\u2019ve got to outdo yourself from the last time or you aren\u2019t really an artist, are you? You must be allowed to fail and, as Samuel Beckett has said, \u201cIf you fail, next time fail better.\u201d And if you don\u2019t adopt that kind of reckless attitude toward creating then you\u2019ll never be any good.\u00a0
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Q: You\u2019ve finally done this feature. Has it been a while since you last worked on a film? You\u2019ve kept it relatively self-contained. What did it take to get it done and find the actors? Now it\u2019s all the process afterwards. A lot of actors and directors don\u2019t realize that if you are not involved with the production all the way through, you\u2019ve given up a part of it. You\u2019ve got to stay engaged in a way that you don\u2019t realize till you are into the next phase.\u00a0
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TW: Yeah, it\u2019s a lot more work than I had anticipated. First of all, I raised the money myself which is quite a challenging exercise. When you go to people and say, \u201cExcuse me, can I ask you for help\u201d and they say, \u201cSure.\u201d Then you say, \u201cI need money,\u201d they change rather on a dime. But I was fortunate enough to be able to find, I guess, about seven or eight people who chipped in, and smaller amounts in exchange for points in the film.
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Q: You didn\u2019t go the social media route?
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TW: No. I tried to do that. We raised $2000 and that wasn\u2019t going to do me any good. I knew $2000 was nothing. I needed to get more. So I just went to fans that I knew who had money and friends that had money \u2014 people that believed in me \u2014 people that knew me well enough to know that if Tom does this he\u2019ll do it right. And I feel that I did. Guess the audience will be the judge of that, won\u2019t they?
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Q: It\u2019s a pretty provocative subject. You\u2019ve got a couple who are opening up their marriage and are going to have sex with other people. And it doesn\u2019t quite end up the way it sounds like.
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TW: Right, we don\u2019t want to give away the ending. Let\u2019s just say It\u2019s that five year hitch [point]. After five years \u2014 as anybody that\u2019s married can tell you \u2014 things hit a wall and people tend to either have affairs or try to spice things up. So the characters that I\u2019ve created chose to spice things up and there are moral consequences.
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Q: How did you find those two actors?
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TW: My manager David Guss at Vanguard Management recommended them because I couldn\u2019t afford a casting director. I had to just find actors. I\u2019ve been working with actors for five decades so I can read them pretty quickly. Then I found Jam Murphy. Jamie\u2019s a lovely human being and an actress who’s great to work with. I found them and we did Zoom readings. It was [during] the pandemic. Although I had to meet Jamie in person before I could cast her. Her part was so integral\u00a0 \u2014 she is the fulcrum upon which the story turns. We met at Siena right here in the neighborhood. We sat outside wearing our masks and as far as I could tell I felt we had a great connection instantaneously. She\u2019s proven to be not just an asset in terms of helping me get the film off the ground but on set, she was such fun. She was just like, \u201cLet\u2019s make a movie!\u201d That\u2019s the greatest attitude you could possibly dream of as a director. And there were tough conditions. We shot a 90-minute film. I had to go back and do a re-shoot, so it was really 15 days.
\u00a0
Q: You didn\u2019t tap your students?\u00a0
\u00a0
TW: I did not tap any of my students because none of them at the time were right for the roles that I was looking for. The vision changed through each rewrite. It kept on getting clearer and clearer. It was sort of like going to the eye doctor and they put on this fuzzy lens and it got clearer and clearer. Then finally I got into focus \u2014 \u201cOh I see, she has to be 30 years old; he has to be 50 years old\u201d \u2014 in order for this story to work. I was lucky enough that I saw Jamie in a video, a video about dogs. I went, “There\u2019s something about her that\u2019s extraordinary.” She\u2019s even more beautiful as a person \u2013 as a human \u2013 than she is physically. And she\u2019s quite stunningly attractive, as you can see. But then I got the other two actors from David Guss and hired the rest. I did hire one student. Well, he was really a professional actor from Utah. Wilford Brimley had asked me to direct \u201cHarvey\u201d and he played the main character. Dr Lyman, I think that was his name. The doctor in the story of Harvey was this brilliant kid from St. George, Utah. He was a student of mine, and I cast him in the role of the cop.
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Q: There’s the preference of doing theater, film or even TV for acting, but what about for directing?
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TW: I have directed tons of theater. You see there on the wall \u2014 the poster of “Twelfth Night.” I\u2019ve probably directed over 50 plays Off Broadway, Off-Off Broadway and regionally. I\u2019ve got a lot of experience directing plays which is quite challenging, You\u2019re in one space. You can’t really change locations, but I\u2019ve had some great set designers that have helped. I did a production of \u201cAs You Like It\u201d where the set designer, a Japanese guy, painted the entire floor as the forest. The whole play is in different places but the forest is significant, the fulcrum! Directing theatre is exciting, challenging and motivating. People have to give the same performance night after night as opposed to film. There, it is really up to me where I put the camera, how I want this story to be told, who I want to focus on and why.
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Q: Is it harder to find the right crew or harder to find the right actors?
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TW: It\u2019s harder to find the right actors. Finding the right actors is everything! And I had a great crew. A terrific crew \u00ad\u2013\u2013 Vinny Patricini, Steve Concha and Alyssa Rabinowitz. The three producers found the crew for me because I didn’t know where to find crews. I am an actor, for God\u2019s sake. We’ve got great people and they worked long hours, under arduous conditions in the summer at night. But we had a great deal of fun which kinda makes up for it.
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Q: You were 23 when you basically got this crucial role. Had you always known that you were going to be an actor?
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TW: Actually, my first film was when I was 21. I did a film called \u201cPity the Poor Soldier\u201d that had the actor William Sadler in it.
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Q: Oh, I love William Sadler.
\u00a0
TW: Yeah, Billy\u2019s great. Then I did the lead in a film with the great actor, John Heard. It was \u201cOn The Yard\u201d produced by Joan Micklin Silver, whom you probably remember from \u201cHester Street.\u201d Her husband directed this film. \u201cOn The Yard\u201d was based on a book by Malcolm Braley who had spent 21 of his 47 years in prison. He wrote the book whilst Rafael Silver wrote the script. John and I starred in it. I had those two films under my belt. \u201cOn The Yard\u201d got great notices especially from The New York Times. So that got Paramount and Walter Hill\u2019s attention. John Heard is the \u201cHome Alone\u201d dad. Unfortunately, he\u2019s no longer with us but he was a very underrated actor. As brilliant on stage as he was on film.
\u00a0
Q: Where did you grow up?
\u00a0
TW: I grew up outside of Philadelphia, a place called Levittown Bristol. I lived in a place they now call Crack City. It was a rough neighborhood and I knew that I wanted to get out. I was headed for trouble, myself, I was a member of a gang. I was not going anywhere but prison and I got hit by a car. In the hospital, I got addicted to Demerol. In those days you could lay in the hospital bed, light up a cigarette and just drift off to sleep.Then they stopped giving me Demerol because it was a week into this pretty serious accident and I wanted this pain medication. I pulled the chain for the nurse to come and would put on this big show of how much pain I was in. Then of course, they would give me the injection. A few days later, the doctors looking at my chart would be like, “Why are you giving him so much Demerol?\u201d The nurse looked at me then at the doctor then back at me and she went \u201cYou ought to become an actor.\u201d A light bulb went off over my head and I thought, \u201cWell I can\u2019t play sports anymore because I have no legs. I had gotten them both broken severely. So in the hospital, I started to read and watch films. I started to identify. Then when I came out of the hospital, I was in a high school play, then another. Then someone suggested I audition for Juilliard and I got a scholarship.
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Q: Obviously, you got off the Demerol.
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TW: Obviously yeah [laughs]. They took that away instantly \u2014 my addictive personality notwithstanding. But I also realized that Shakespeare \u2014 I\u2019d seen Zefferelli\u2019s \u201cRomeo & Juliet\u201d \u2014 and I just wept and realized Shakespeare was God. I went to the library and memorized the entire balcony scene of both characters which, to this day, I could recite by rote.\u00a0I used Romeo and I knew Shakespeare would get me out of that neighborhood. That was my ticket out. I wasn\u2019t particularly bright like my oldest brother with an IQ of 151. I didn\u2019t have that going for me. I couldn\u2019t play sports or fight or be in a gang anymore and I had to get out of this environment. It was bad for me. Sure enough, I dedicated myself to Shakespeare and still do. He is the greatest of all writers. I mean think about that. There are a lot of us that have tried writing. He is God and we are all somewhere underneath.
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Q: Sometimes I think it\u2019s a bit over-inflated about Shakespeare and then other times I go back to read it and realize that it’s a particularly bizarre but logical turn of phrase. How did he come up with that?
\u00a0
TW: And he did. 75% of it is iambic pentameter. So he\u2019s stuck to a very strict meter: beat stress beat stress beat stress beat stress beat stress. He made great characters and great stories. He was a great comedian and a great philosopher and a great poet: all in one. Perhaps, he even invented us, I am not sure. But he certainly stands out in the hierarchy of literature, l mean even Tolstoy tipped his hat to him. Faulkner. They were afraid of him. How could anyone be this brilliant and write 37 plays, two lyric poems, 146 sonnets and be dead by 52 and do it all by hand?! And still being done today. If you go to England, if you go to Strafford there is an entire town that makes its living on his name. Shops, bars, stores clothing \u2013 the whole town would just be another small English nothin\u2019 town except for the fact that he was born there. In what appears to be the smallest bed I\u2019ve ever seen in my life. That\u2019s where his mom was. But I guess people were really small back then. People were small. That\u2019s why when you go to England the rooms are so tiny. They never expected us to grow up fat!\u00a0
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Q: I never understood how an actor can claim that they\u2019re introverts or shy because they have to be able\u00a0to project beyond the stage. How does that work?
\u00a0
TW: Well. I am an introvert. In point of fact, I ACT.\u00a0 But truth be told, I am sort of a priest \u2014 really an introspective kind \u2013\u2013 at least a Black Irish poet in my own mind. I spend a great deal of time alone, of course. To write songs, you have to be alone for long periods of time. And to write plays\u00a0\u2014 of which I\u2019ve written several \u2014 I got my MFA from the University of Iowa in writing.\u00a0
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Q:\u00a0\u00a0I think William Burroughs ended up out there \u2026.
\u00a0
TW: A lot of great people have gone through there. Some of our favorite writers have gone through there and taught there but it teaches you craft and skill. Of course, nobody can teach you talent \u2014 that has to be born. Talent is work essentially. Because I spend so much time alone, when I have to be with people, like with you or out at a party I just ACT.
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Q: How much are you acting and how much are you giving me the real deal?
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TW: You\u2019ll never know the real deal, will you?
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Q: Before we conclude, tell me a little bit about your Irish experience. You\u2019ve referenced it several times. What county is your family from?
\u00a0
TW: My family is from County Cork. My mother\u2019s maiden name was Joyce. I came from an Irish Catholic family of seven. My oldest brother was a priest; my oldest sister was a nun. I went to 12 years of Catholic school and am grateful for the strict education I received there. I am still in touch with some of the priests and teachers from my high school days. But when I visited Ireland, I could feel that I\u2019ve been there before. Crossing the Irish Sea, I stood on the bow of the boat with the Irish Sea spraying over my face and I just cried. Of course, I had a pint of Guinness in me. I\u2019m Home. I am finally Home and I can\u2019t wait to go back there. I’d love to go back there and perform. Actually, that\u2019s my dream. Home is where you hang your hat. And I want to note — I’m Thomas G Waites, not to be confused with the great musician, Tom Waits.\u00a0
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Q: You know him though\u2026
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TW: I knew him and we spent time together. I guess the first time we met was back in 1977. We were both at a production of “West Side Story” and I saw this strange looking person in the lobby. He was standing there in his leather jacket kind of rocking back and forth. I went up to him and said “Excuse me. Are You Tom Waits?” He didn\u2019t say anything but just shook his head, \u201cHmm\u201d. I said, “So am I.” Then he looked at me and went [in Waits’ gravely voice] “So you are the guy out there impersonating me?! [Chuckles all around.] “We had a good laugh and went out to have a pint at Jimmy Ray\u2019s that night, the old one on 8th Avenue. He gave me his number and we\u00a0kept in touch. He moved downtown in 1980 for a bit, when he married Kathleen and we saw each other several more times. We met at the Broome Street Bar where I\u2019m like, \u201cTom what are we going to do about our names? I mean, I was in the business first but I used Thomas.” He said, “Well, if you ever get a deal, my record company will ask you to change your name.” We went back and forth.
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Q: I guess this was around the time after \u201cIn the Heart of Saturday Night.\u201d
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TW: Right around then. I love that album. I love those songs. He is an extraordinary individual, the kindest man [in Tom Waits gravel voice] \u201cWell it\u2019s not like my name is Bruce Spring-stein [both laugh]” He’s a very, very funny man. Then he was generous enough to come to a recording session. At the time I was doing a demo tape. I was signed to a letter of intent by a publishing company called CESAC. There\u2019s ASCAP, BMI and CESAC\u00a0[the third.] They usually do country artists and Europeans but they wanted to break in here.\u00a0 I had a new wave punk rock band called The Push Ups. They liked my songs. I can write songs so I was signed to them and we did a demo. Tom agreed to come and sit in. He found a big, gigantic VFW bass drum hanging from the ceiling and took it down. He played on it\u00a0and\u00a0taught the bass player how to play the bassline to the song that I was doing. But it required double fingering on the big standup bass which you had to have huge hands for. The guy had a really hard time doing it but he, Tom, very patiently kept showing him. He very patiently taught me “Jersey Girl” — how to play it properly. He’s been nothing but kind. We used to exchange; I would give him acting tips and he would give me music tips. He was quite extraordinary in terms of his kindness and intelligence really. I would say he affected me and then I met Kathleen. I had a play published that I wrote when I was in Iowa about baseball — I played baseball when I was a kid. I wrote this play and it was published. They sent the play and the check to Kathleen and Tom [chuckle.] She wrote to me with the play,\u00a0“Dear Tom Here\u2019s your play. I read it. I liked it very much. I hope you are doing well.” Tom gets stopped frequently in the place that used to rent movies all the time \u2026.
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Q: You mean Blockbuster\u2026
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TW: People come up to Tom all the time in Blockbuster and tell him how great he was in \u201cNYPD Blue\u201d [laughs]. And rather than dispute he just stands there and shakes his head. [laughs] He\u2019s never done “NYPD Blue” obviously.
But I\u2019ve done two of them.\u00a0
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Q: How many cop shows have you done?
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TW: Oh God, I don\u2019t know. I always play the bad guy…\u00a0I played \u201cLaw & Order: Criminal Intent\u201d with Vincent D\u2019Onofrio. I played a guy who kneecapped old Jews even though his daughter was Jewish. But I’ve never done SVU. They\u2019ve never brought me in. I don’t know why. Maybe they just don\u2019t like me but I\u2019ve done the other two. I think seven of them I\u2019ve done and then you know tons of other TV shows. “The Punisher.” “Homeland.” When I lived in LA, I did a lot of TV.
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Q: Thank God for TV and the streamers now. Everybody survives by that.
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TW: It helps. The residual checks have kept me alive and my family too. And having health insurance all those years for the children was a big accomplishment. So I consider myself a successful actor [chuckle] because of that.
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Q: I could consider myself successful on one front just because I’ve had my apartment for 45 years.
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TW: There you go. That in New York is an accomplishment.<\/p>\n

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